Super Claud, looking for the right number.

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Scrat
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Super Claud, looking for the right number.

Post by Scrat » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:08 pm

Hi folks,

lately I read an article that one Super Claud had almost been preserved. The stors goes that "do not scrap" was written on one cab sinde but the wrecking crew approached from the other side. That article did not mention any number and I am not sure if that is true.

Can anyone give more info about that?

If this really has been the case I would choose this number for my Super Claud. This would be the "what-if" version.

Best regards

Holger aka Scrat
Eddyg
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Re: Super Claud, looking for the right number.

Post by Eddyg » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:20 pm

Holgar,

No.62613 was the last Claud to be withdrawn during September 1960. I have seen something on the internet recently about the attempt to preserve it but I can't remember where.

I presume you would want it in GER livery since I believe you are painting it blue. you would have to trace its number back fron its BR number above.

Regards

Eddie
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Scrat
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Re: Super Claud, looking for the right number.

Post by Scrat » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:51 am

Hi Eddie,

thanks for the info. Yes, I have seen photos of another Claud in blue with vermillion buffer beams and white cab roof and the decision was taken at once. Du you know a supplier for the letters/numbers/crests?
I must admit that I´m absolutely untalented using waterslide transfers...

Best regards

Holger
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richardw
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Re: Super Claud, looking for the right number.

Post by richardw » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:10 am

The trouble with that Eddie is that no Super Claude's were painted blue. The first one was completed by the GER in grey, the rest were built/rebuilt by the LNER. GER blue is only correct for the smaller boilered (non-super) ones.

Holger, The one that nearly survived to be preserved would have been one of the later round top boiler rebuilds rather than the Belpaire of Yours. I'll have a look later to see which number/livery would be authentic for that loco in the condition modelled.

Richard
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Scrat
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Re: Super Claud, looking for the right number.

Post by Scrat » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:01 am

Hi Folks,

now you got me confused. Among others I found this pic on the net some time ago. Belpaire Boiler, big smokebox and blue livery.

Image

Do you think this is incorrect?

Best regards

Holger
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richardw
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Re: Super Claud, looking for the right number.

Post by richardw » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:03 pm

Holger

I'm afraid that the Blue livery is incorrect, the GER stopped painting locos in Blue by 1916, painting them Grey from then until the LNER took over in 1923. As the first Super Claud was no 1805 rebuilt between Oct 1922 and March 1923 they never appeared in Blue, all but the first one appeared in LNER Apple Green.

The pictured one 8787 with extended Smokebox dates from between 1929 and 1944 so would probably only have appeared in black with single red lining as that was standard for repaints from June 1928 until Dec 1931 when it was repainted Apple Green as one of the Royal Engines and stayed green until WW2.

It is a complicated subject and cannot be summarised easily but the first 15 post grouping 'Super Clauds' came out of rebuilding in Apple Green but with the short smokebox and later rebuilds came out in Black with single red lining. It appears that 10 probably were in Extended Smokebox/Belpaire form in Apple Green prior to the lined black coming in. Then there would have been unlined Black wartime livery. I think only 4 made it into British Railways unlined Black in this condition as most had been converted to D16/3 with Round Top boilers by that time.

The final Claud in service, 62613, was in the Belpaire/Extended Smokebox form from May 1931 to Dec 1948 so would probably have been in Black with single Red lining until becoming plain Black during the war, gaining British Railways Black when rebuilt with a Round Top boiler in Dec 1948.

Hope this hasn't caused even more confusion and I stand ready to be proved wrong!

There seem to have been a few 5" Super Clauds painted in Blue because it looks very nice even though it isn't authentic.

Richard
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Scrat
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Re: Super Claud, looking for the right number.

Post by Scrat » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:21 pm

Hi Richard,

even if it is not authentic, I will stick to the blue livery.
Even in Germany, there are some "what if" liveries. A few years ago, the famous 18 201 was repainted red. It ran in that livery for a year. The reason was that red had always been the colour of German highspeed steamers like 05 001. So 18 201 had to run in red which did not suit her at all I think. This act was sponsored by a model-railway company. There was a lot of discussion going on if this was authentic or just a means of creating a new prototype and selling another version of the model.

Image

Image

or the famous S3/6 painted in blue, sponsored by another model-railway company (recognise the logo on the cylinder?)

Image

Image

So all I am looking for now is a running number that would look correct on a preserved Super Claud that has been repainted in blue/vermilion.

Best regards

Holger
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richardw
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Re: Super Claud, looking for the right number.

Post by richardw » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:32 pm

Holger

In that case I would suggest 1805 as the only true GER Super Claud, all the rest being LNER ones assuming you are going to letter the tender GER not LNER, if you want an LNER number then any between 8780 and 8789 would probably fit the bill.

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Richard
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Re: Super Claud, looking for the right number.

Post by richardw » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:03 pm

I forgot to mention that the photo of 8787 above isn't in GER Blue anyway, the lining etc is wrong.

There is a description of the GER Blue livery in the 6th paragraph at http://www.gersociety.org.uk/index.php? ... &Itemid=32

Richard
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Re: Super Claud, looking for the right number.

Post by Scrat » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:20 pm

Hi Richard,

some time ago I ordered a complete livery sheet from Blackgates. This is very helpful.

Best regards

Holger
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