Interested in a signal building group?

[Dave Noble]

Some posts and fittings were galvanised, but for painted ones the actual scheme varied somewhat. I suspect there was little control over it, and that older schemes were continued after nationalisation, as you will have noticed.

According to the drawings, the posts were black up to 3ft above rail level, the remainder white. The black would therefore include the cranks and their fittings.

Other fittings seem to have been black, but sometimes it would seem that the black on the post was extended to include the balance lever area. The black band above and below the diamond was an LMS thing. Spectacle plates were black, though the drawing for the fabricated one stipulates 'micacious iron oxide silver grey paint'. Painting them red was again an LMS thing. Ladders and safety loops generally all black.

The diamond sign was of course white, but the back, and the edges, were matt black.

And then there's the hints of soot and rust!

[Ben Lyons]

Hi All

Hopefully in the next couple of day you will be getting your kits from Dave, I got most of mine on Saturday. So to help I have added some pics of the detail both top and bottom. Dave I think is adding to the list a what to do with the bits. If it helps I will add pictures of parts and a it a ! should go !

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[Ben Lyons]

bigger pictures hopefully any one that wants them be e as full size file please advise

Ben

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[David Hale]

Beautiful work Ben. Very impressive.

[Ben Lyons]

Hi David
The pictures are of the prototype single post assembled by Dave noble and forms the basis of the signals for Shildon being built by a group of us. I'm doing two, two arm brackets and helping Dave with a three arm unit. I will add a few pictures as progress proceeds

Ben

[David Hale]

Look forward to the pictures Ben, as I'm sure others do.

[Ben Lyons]

Hi All

I think by now some of you have received kits from Dave.
Given a big bag of parts I'm doing 7 arms in total I thought start with the easy bits, so a few notes on the parts so far
Servo bases-- These are all but ready to go a light file to take of the edges and I filed a bit of a chamfer at the end of the slots to allow the ears to sit down.The four corner hole I opened out to 2.5mm then tapped M3 for the fixings. The ears again a light file the tap 10BA.
You need to make sure when soldering the ears to the that the base is the correct way up and the little 45 angle on the ears is to the outside.

Arms Brass to form fold I was able to hold the flange in a 6 inch machine vice and with a square edge steel strip fold along the etch line..
Spec plate and spindle housing both needed a bit of a trim to remove casting sprue and the holes drilling, spec plate I drilled 1.1mm for M1 bolts at spindle housing I drilled 1.7 for the U bolts..

I'm now sorting out my posts and Cross rails for the brackets.

DAVE PLEASE ADD CORRECTIONS IF Required

Ben

[Keith1500]

Dave,

I have completed the Balance arm pins and the crank arm pins. I shall get them in the post to you tomorrow. Wow what a fiddle job that was. Most challenging especially drilling the 1/32 hole in stainless. bit like playing russian roulette ! Broke one drill and then a second but managed to salvage the second drill and get going again. The brass casting is fitted with a pin that has 2mm of 8BA thread. All the others are with 4mm of thread and those receiving them will need to reduce this to suit. I would have done it but just run out of time and I think its important to get these parts shipped.



Keith

[Richard Phillips]

Thanks for the parts, I started to put them together:

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It raises a few questions however...

1) Post height. I think earlier you said posts needed to be shortened - mine is 775mm or thereabouts, but needs to come down to 673?
2) Balance and crank positions - can you let me know where these should be, so I can set up the pull wires, you did give the arm height from the top of the post previously I think, but this is dependent on getting the post the right height!
3) Bump stop. My arm sags a bit, this is by design I think as there is a return cushioning spring, are we planning to implement this?
4) I assume the rod with the spring is there to stop the arm doing a windmill impression from a strong wind or inertia from a very rapid pull or something... It appears to be as drawing, but there would be a lot of extra travel in it... just curious on this point really
5) Arm colour. I went into a model shop sure that Humbrol used to sell a "signal yellow" - which is a colour used, but checking the specification, distants were painted "Golden Yellow" - are we going to choose a consistent colour for all the distant/mains ("Signal Red" is a Humbrol colour, I assume it's the same spec and Precision Paints probably do it)? This leads me to a possible idea for the bands, rather than masking and spraying I remember using a product called Solartrim for model aircraft which was very thin self-adhesive film. It's possible that might work with chevrons cut from a template rather than going to the difficulty of masking... I'll see if I can find some an see what happens.
6) The slot heads for the shackles seem as though they don't fit the shackles I have, that was what they were intended for? Do you have a good supplier for slot-head 12BA for the ladders?
7) The LMS pattern arm seems to have a larger bolt and washer on the arm for the central bolt of the group of five, but I don't think that was replicated on the BR version was it?
What was the etch for again - I'm sure you told me but I've forgotten, a locking tab?
9) Bulbs, these are to be soldered into the terminals?

I see Keith is making some pins, although I went ahead and did my balance arm 1/8" rather 2.8mm as there wasn't that much in it, although I haven't cross drilled yet.

[Eddyg]

There are issues with the signal arm colours as Keith identifies. Humbrol do Signal Red in satin finish but not Signal Yellow or Golden Yellow. Precision do Signal Red and Signal Yellow in dull finish which I presume is matt. Looking at the RAL colour charts Golden Yellow is a much darker shade than signal yellow and doesn't look right to me, but the spec is against BSS 381C 1948 not RAL so could be totally different although the BSS colour chart shows this as similar to the RAL version and the number is in agreement with the BR spec. The nearest Humbrol does is Insignia Yellow - at least that's my view, bearing in mind the disclaimers about colour charts on computer screens. Ralcolour does 30ml touch up in matt in Signal Red and Golden Yellow at about £8 each plus shipping which is much more than Humbrol and Precision for 14ml at £1.70 and £3.20 respectively each plus shipping. There are others but they don't supply in the minute quantities we need.

I do think we should be uniform with the signal arm colours, so we need to come to a consensus on the colour, finish and supplier very quickly. My vote is for the Humbrol with clear laquer to give a gloss finish.

Eddie

[Dave Noble]

Eddy,

I'm rubbish at painting, and prefer to use spray cans. What do you think about this

http://www.riolettcustomaerosols.co.uk/ ... ray-paint/

for instance. The home arms were painted with number 537.

Not very cheap, but quick, and definitely the right colour, though if you scroll down they do do little touch up pots. I would suggest a satin finish rather than full gloss, I'm not convinced that gloss finishes scale well, if you see what I mean. I'm happy to order in 'bulk' if that helps. Comments?

[Ben Lyons]

Hi We have a company that supplies all BS colours in aerosol rattle cans I agree with Eddie satin would be best
Company Nu-agane in Bedford they are on web and can send to where ever. Pick a RAL colour and spec Satin they will even do BS colours as matt

Ben

[Alan Wood]

Hi all , is there any news on the u bolts or have we got to make our own , as to paint , I'm happy to go along with every one else but as I only need a very small amount I will quite happily share some with any of you once you get the colour sorted

[Dave Noble]

I have just posted balance lever and crank pins (thanks to Keith) and some U bolts (thanks to Steve) to you all. More U bolts to follow when I receive them.

[Ben Lyons]

Bs 537 is named as signal red, If you want send me you folded arms I will paint satin white with red on face you will need to do black line on rear

Ben

[Dave Noble]

Richard,
1. Yes, you'll need to shorten your post to make the ladder fit.
2. See THE LIST.
3, 4. See THE LIST part 2. This is the fourth post on this thread. I'll update it tonight.
5. Under discussion, but my preference is to have some of the right colours mixed, as mentioned.
6. I can send you some more shackles, though if you squeeze them to fit the arms, the new bolts should be OK. Items is a good supplier of small bolts and such. He advertises in Turnout.
7. All bolts the same on these arms. The etch was to mount the diamond onto, but I think it's a bit thin, and Jonny says we're not fitting diamonds anyway.
8. Bulbs. I'll put something onto THE LIST, but need to take some photos first.

[Keith1500]

There is a whole host of colours with the title signal. Not sure that it is railway related. To be honest if I recall my OO gauge days a signal red looked too orange like.

Anyway, I recently resprayed some of my clubs signals which are used on the 7 1/4 gauge railway and used Halford's Ford Radiant Red. which thought looked right. The yellow I used what was left over from spraying Rocket. I have googled t code but nothing useful came up!

I'll try to find and post a photo..

[Keith1500]

Hopefully gives an idea of the colour.I am happy to try and get advice on colours used if something more accurate is required. I would suggest going for a Halford colour as everyone should be able to get this. I can try and work out the nearest colour to Rocket Yellow if those people building Distants require something to buy.

[Dave Noble]

As mentioned above, home arms were painted with No 537 BSS381c, and distants with No 356. The colours happen to be called signal red and golden yellow, but that may or may not be coincidence, and is irrelevant really. I don't see the point in looking for colours which look like the ones we want, when the ones we want are obtainable essentially off the shelf.

If cost is an issue, then that is another matter altogether. The place I put a link to above sells 60ml for £3, and if I put in an order for all of us they will be just £3 each. There would be carriage at cost from me to you, but no VAT. OR, take up Ben's offer.

[Keith1500]

Quite right. Sorry didn't read it that way.