Interested in a signal building group?

[Eddyg]

I can't see the point of each of us buying enough paint to coat up several full size signal arms (2m2 per400ml) so I suggest Ben gets the paint - both red and yellow - from Nu-agane (who's website doesn't work although they do have an e-bay shop) and we send him the arms to paint as he has kindly offered - cost £15 to £20 to the project plus a stamp each way and a Jiffy bag. All the arms will then be the same colour (right or wrong) and of a uniform standard of finish.

Eddie

[Eddyg]

I've just done the best part of a trial erection of one of my signals and I think, given its small size and intricacy, it has gone very well despite the number of 12BA nuts that are now hiding somewhere on the workshop floor. The castings are really very good and require very little fettling. Dave and Ben have done a great job with them, impressive!.

Looking at Ben's and Keith's signal trial photos, can I just point out they have both made the same error in fitting the signal arm crank - the pull wire needs to go behind the signal arm not in front. The crank needs to be reversed.

Any prediction on when we are likely to get the rest of the parts Dave?

There has been no response to my suggestion we all send our signal arms to Ben for painting. Are we intending to do our own independently?

Eddie

[Ben Lyons]

Hi Eddie
send me yours and I will paint satin white and satin red I am sure you can add the strips I will probably mask the all over white mask off the front strip, then add the red, that will just leave the back strip. ( bit of masking then black rattle can)
Alan if you want to do the same I can do yours as well
really anyone else

Ben

[Eddyg]

Ben,

I have one red and one yellow. I'll put them both in the post on Monday. If you don't have the yellow paint just do the white and I'll find some suitable yellow to finish it here. I do hope the others take up your generous offer so all the signal arms will be the same red.

Regards

Eddie

[Alan Wood]

Hi Ben , mine are the same as Eddies one red and one yellow I'll try and post them when I get back on Monday as well , many thanks Alan

[Ben Lyons]

Hi eddy

Have you sent you arms for painting , not yet received

Ben

[Eddyg]

Ben,
Posted first class Monday. So much for RM!
Hopefully it will turn up tomorrow.

Eddie

[Eddyg]

Hi Ben.

Thanks for the telephone call this evening, I'm relieved my package has turned up. 3 days for 1st Class mail, hardly acceptable and certainly not competitive.

Eddie

[Eddyg]

Dave,

Parts received today, thank you. It would be interesting to know when you posted them, given that the package carries a second class stamp. I can't tell the post date as it hasn't been franked.

You could give me some advice on painting white metal castings, or how to clean the release agent from them. My first attempt at spraying them was a disaster as it ended up looking like Hammerite, presumably because of silicone contamination, despite the parts having been scrubbed in white spirit.

Eddie

[Dave Noble]

Eddie

Glad you got the parts, posted Wednesday, so delivery is as I would have expected. Seems you've been unlucky.

Can't understand your problems with the painting though, I must have sold hundreds of whitemetal castings (axleboxes, buffer stocks etc), and don't recollect this problem. I'll see if I can paint my spectacle plate this weekend and see what happens. The only release agent I use is talc, dusted onto the mould occasionally. Any silicone oil I would have expected to have been driven off with previous casting.

After cleaning off flash etc, I might give the casting a rub over with a brass wire brush to remove any debris, slosh it around in cellulose thinners (more effective and quicker drying than white spirit), then apply Halfords or similar aerosol primer. When thoroughly dry, topcoat with their aerosol black or whatever.

Are you sure you didn't use Hammerite?

Dave.

[Keith1500]

Having cleaned up your castings given them a blast with brake cleaner to degrease prior to applying paint. Allow time for it vap off and the casting temperature to return to room temp. Cheap and convenient.

I have found Modern hammerite gives poor results not that anyone would use it for models... Would they?

[Scrat]

Keith,

I tried that. My LBSC Miny was due for a repaint of the running boards. Cleaned and put Hammerite (the newish stuff) on. After a few days it came right off in big flakes. Cleaned again, primed, painted (regular paint) and it worked. The old Hammerite was much better....

[Eddyg]

No not Hammerite, and I agree with Keith that the new Hammerite is completely useless. Doesn't go on well and peels off in no time.

I've put a lot of effort into painting bits today. My early consideration was that they had been contaminated with WD40. I hadn't used any recently, and a check with the motorcycle repair department gave me the same. So I soaked them in strong detergent for a few hours, washed them off with hot water and after drying gave them a wash in cellulose thinners and a scrub with a wire brush. Halfords primer worked more or less OK and and later a coat of Halfords enamel spray was fine. I had had the same effect with brush applied Humbrol on Halford's primer that hadn't taken properly. The brass castings and steel parts were unaffected and took sprayed and brush applied paint without problem. It is just the white metal that has been problematic. If its something I'm doing wrong I can't imagine what it is - I've been painting locomotives both model and full size for more than 40 years and this is something that has never been an issue. It's a mystery.

Anyway most of the parts are painted now and apart from touching up after assembly that's the end of the painting for this project.

Eddie

[Eddyg]

I'm just about worked up with the bits I've got. Just to make sure I haven't missed anything I think need the following parts to complete my two signals:

Base plate including lead weight, plugs and sockets, electronics gubbins other than servos
Coloured glasses
Lamp body and any internals
Balance weight
Signal ID plates

Following assembly I have a few queries:
I have single strand wire supplied which I assume is for the signal pull wires - am I wrong in thinking the original idea was to use multi strand cable for these as shown in the photographs of the shackles?
I have four shackles per signal and I've placed one on the signal arm, two on the balance lever and one on the crank. Should I have two more to connect the servo to the crank?
Which holes are the shackles to be placed in on the balance lever and crank?
Which actuating arm of the several supplied should I fit to the servos?
According to the full size drawings the signal ID plates are attached to the posts with 'Jubilee' type pipe clips. How are we doing this in miniature?

Eddie

[Dave Noble]

Eddy,

Base. Richard is doing these, they should come complete with all wiring and sockets etc.
No one has volunteered to do the weights, and I haven't got time, may be after Shildon.
Cables. I'm making them for Noble sidings, Jonny and/or Richard is/are hopefully dong the rest, when they decide what they want.
Coloured glasses. Just heard from Chris that he's done these, so they should be with you soon.
Lamp body. I have all the bits for the internals, the body pattern is still a work in progress.
Balance weights. No progress. probably won't be ready for Shildon, but the signals work fine without.
Signal ID plates. Struggling. I'm just ordering some laser cut bits, so will include the plates. They are carried on a pressed steel saddle, and I had some etched with the arms, there will be one per post in with your bag of bits. It needs to be bent and soldered, but is very weak. My intention had been to solder the saddle on, add a ring of narrow metal to represent the jubilee clip, then add the plate itself. I think the bits are too weak to handle though. I'm avoiding this problem for the moment!

The idea was to use stranded wire, but it has so far proved impossible to get a good eye on it. I have therefore included piano wire, which works, I'll try and get something on THE LIST for you. If you want to try some stranded, let me know, I've got loads.
You only need 4 shackles.
Use the servo arm with a hole at 7.5mm radius. I'll get some pictures up of how I connected the wire, a servo tester like this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Servo-Tester- ... SwXshWteOg
connected to 4.5 volts very useful for setting it all up.

[Eddyg]

Dave,

I'm currently looking at making a couple of 7" balance weights from a bit of scrap brass. I guess you would cast them in WM, but I don't have any RTV in stock at the moment and don't want to buy a 1Kg pack to make a mould needing less than 100g.

I've made some cables using multi strand electrical wire. The eyes are the correct size and are made as the drawing, but the cable is difficult to straighten being copper and tends to be untidy when slack, as the spectacle plate without the blade isn't heavy enough to apply some tension (if it ever will be). You might send me some of your stainless wire so I can experiment with it.

I take it the connection between the servo and the crank is intended to be done with piano wire to disguise it?

I've attached the back blinder as drawn, on the assumption the back light shows only in the 'on' position, which is logical, because if the signalman sees no backlight when his lever is in the 'on' position then he knows the signal is either stuck 'off' or the lamp has gone out. Have a look at your photo of the one at Uttoxeter, or is this the condition where the signalman can see the front of the signal from the box? Do we need to make this distinction for ours.

Eddie

[Dave Noble]

Eddie,

Might it be possible to straighten the copper wire by pulling it tight before forming the eyes? But, I'll send you some stainless wire anyway.

Yes, piano wire from servo to crank. You can see the arrangement of the shackles in the photos Ben posted on the previous page.

I don't understand the arrangement of the backblinder at Uttoxeter. The box is out of sight behind the signal. The usual position is as you suggest, backlight lamp normally visible, and hidden when the arm is at clear, for the reasons you give. Oddly, the drawing in THE LIST part 2 is rather ambiguous.

[Ben Lyons]

Hi,
Just a note to those who have sent me arms to paint Homes all done Distant I have had to redo as tape pulled some of the white off having painted on the last bit of black, anyway have now redone the base colours and will do black first thing on Monday and send them back to you,

Thanks for your patience

[Dave Noble]

Some news, not good, but not necessarily terminal.

I am just adding extensions to my turnout bases to fit point machines into, so that we have powered points at Middleton, and the crossover in Noble Sidings. What I have only just twigged is that I don't have enough of the correct hand. We need three right hand ones, I only have two of each hand! I'll sit back while you all hurl insults.

It seems to me that the possibilities are,
Use the two at Noble Sidings, and hand operate the Middleton one.
Put a left hand one in at Middleton, and hope there is enough space to put the kink there instead of at the bottom.
Ask for volunteers to fit one of their right hand points with power.
What are your thoughts?

The other thing is that I have cast all the lamp bodies in whitemetal. Unfortunately, the lids don't fit. Though the lid pattern was oversize, it could have been a little larger, shrinkage is a little bit more than envisaged. The bodies have swelled a bit at the sides, making them a bit wider than they should be, this is surprising as it's not usually a problem. But the most annoying thing, is that I didn't check the 3D printed pattern. Even though it was made on a very expensive machine, it has been printed too wide. Height and length are fine, just the width is out. I've checked my original drawing which is fine.

So, I spent some time trimming the raised top edges which fit into the lid on one, and got it to fit, and it doesn't look too bad. Then I just linished all the raised edges off one so that the lid sits on top, rather than around the raised bit. One edge still needs trimming and rounding off to clear the lid in the raised position, but there is much less work to do. Unless anyone objects, I will remove the top from all the castings, and send them out tomorrow.

Lamps reduced.jpg (45.51 KiB) Viewed 31305 times

One last thing. Some are wondering if this will all get finished for Shildon, so it would be helpful if you could all please let the rest of us know what you are, or are not, likely to have available. If it's not all done this year, I don't see this as a tragedy, there's always next year.

For my part, I expect to have two finished working signals, but they may not be fully painted. I will have a box to operate Noble Sidings on Megapoints, though there may not be any interlocking, and I expect to have all the cables made up for that end. I'll do my best to get two turnouts powered, I'm currently gluing on the extensions on the dining room table, because it's the biggest flat thing we've got, hope Anne doesn't get back too soon! I'll update THE LIST, probably on a daily basis as I put my signals together.

Could those with track remember that some panels will need grooves in the bottom to allow the cables to pass from one side of the track to the other. I'll look after the bottom end, but someone will need to do some for Shildon and Middleton. Perhaps Jonny or Richard could let us know how big their cables will be.

[Eddyg]

Hi Dave,

My two signals, M3 and M9 are now painted and and have servos and pull wires fitted and working and I've made the brass balance weights. I'm assuming Ben will get the painted signal arms back to me this week and the fitted out bases will arrive very soon from Richard. I'll have a go at getting the lamps and coloured glasses fitted if they are with me this week.

I'd post photos but it's impossible to get good shots of them in the confines of my workshop where they are currently hung on hooks from the top shelves. If I had bases then they could be photographed outside with much less back ground clutter.

I'm a little concerned that the width of the lamp housing has grown. I placed a lid neatly on 15mm square tube but the tube was offset on the lamp bracket due to the width of the stiffening rib. is the lamp body much smaller than the top rim?

Eddie