LMS Milk Tank

[Keith1500]

ok, sounds like an intersting article. Thanks for the information.

Anyone got a spare copy or pdf version of the article?. I would buy it if only th emagazine made getting hold of back issues easy!

Keith

[Richard Phillips]

Oh for a colour picture of the original tanks... If only I knew the real colours. Here's the OO gauge model:


And here's the closest automotive colour I could find which wasn't pearlescent or metalic. Note this is showing up a lot "redder" under a energy saving "light" bulb

[Keith1500]

I think you have just resolved one og my dilemmas.

I quite like the livery and its in keeping with having the straps on the outside

Keith

[Dave Noble]

Lovely job Richard.

I can't find any information on the IMS colours, but the photos in LMS coaches suggest that the saddles and other above solebar bits were a lighter colour than the tank. This difference also shows on some other owners tanks, could it be that the LMS at one time painted the underframe black and the rest grey, then the owner had his own liveried tank fitted?

Dave.

[Keith1500]

Be useful to know a colour scheme and perhaps a paint No/colour for the tank.

Keith

[Richard Phillips]

I'm wondering if that lighter colour is the red as seen on this restored(?) milk tanker:

The LMS lettering on the solebar then being yellow. I certainly have some doubts about the description of the MMB tanker colours as described in one of the books, think it was the Bradford Barton "passenger stock" book.

Who knows? No-one seems to have recorded the liveries. There are two main "Independent Milk Supplies Ltd" liveries that I am aware of, one just being "IMS" on the tank sides. The Co-op Wholesale Supply CWS livery in Green is a nice slightly plain one, which I believe is majority green/white lettering. There is the Blue of Express dairies, the white of United Dairies. I have no idea what the plain livery of Cow and Gate was. The later Orange/white St Ivel livery is still to be seen at the Gloucester Warwickshire.

To give builders' some ideas though, half way down this page http://www.magandy.co.uk/ukbl/Wagons.htm are someone's computer simulation liveries that aren't a million miles from the real thing.

Lovely job Richard.

I can't find any information on the IMS colours, but the photos in LMS coaches suggest that the saddles and other above solebar bits were a lighter colour than the tank. This difference also shows on some other owners tanks, could it be that the LMS at one time painted the underframe black and the rest grey, then the owner had his own liveried tank fitted?

Dave.

[Dave Harris]

Re the livery of the LMS milk tanks, especially any difference between the underframe and the tank mounting furniture. I have just e mailed Bob Essery, the 'guru' of all things LMS and am awaiting a reply. As soon as i get a reply i will post the details for all to see.

[Richard Phillips]

Hope he doesn't tell us I've got the wrong colour! Too late now!

[Dave Harris]

I have received a reply from Bob Essery. He says that the mounting furniture could be painted either Grey, Bauxite or Black and the picture may need some interpretation to work out which colour was used. Hope this helps?

[Richard Phillips]

I have received a reply from Bob Essery. He says that the mounting furniture could be painted either Grey, Bauxite or Black and the picture may need some interpretation to work out which colour was used. Hope this helps?

Well I have no real idea what the underframe colour or the tank colour is on this which is taken from a reference photo in his LMS carriages book. I think grey would look odd, and bauxite an odd match, but who knows?

Thanks to Dave Noble for the kit and the transfers, the model is really coming alive now. Without Dave I'm sure GL5 wouldn't be where it is today. Some more work to do, but getting there.

[Dave Noble]

I have to admit that when you asked for IMS transfers I was a bit disappointed, it seemed such a boring livery, but now I've seen it I thinkl you've made a good decision. It looks great. And when you get the lettering on the solebars it will really look colourful.
You've, made a lovely job of it, especially considering all the niggles you've had to work round.
I was wondering though why you didn't finish the lettering in one go, after all it was only 1.45am when you wrote your post!

[Richard Phillips]

I was taken by the Express Dairy colours but with 2 in production (and 3 United Dairies out there) I thought I'd do a different one. It would be nice seeing a rake of the same livery but milk tanks add a little colour and variety to the line-up Gilling. One of the things that swung the decision was a good reference photo, even though I don't know the actual colours and I have to thank Hornby for an approximation of what it might be. The correct MMB livery for this diagram seems a little plain and with a bit of license and the fact no-one else has done IMS I decided to go for it (I should have different tank fittings, leaf spring ends and triangular bracing on the chassis).

When the tank was in steel/ali cladding I did contemplate the later plain logos as the most reference photos seem to exist for this late period, baring the conversions to waste oil tanks where some of these resided in engineers sidings for the end of their lives.

You can't really see it, but there is a thin layer of aluminium on the tank, gluing it on turned out a bit... wavey, so I was forced into a fill and paint job and hence a solid colour finish.

I didn't finish the lettering on the side of the tank because there is no real way to avoid taking the tank straps off to do it, the first row however lines up with the end baulks so it's almost best to do it on the chassis with the straps so that the lettering lines up properly.

I'm getting ready to move house so all this work is done as an when... (even late at night!) thankfully the tank is nearly done otherwise it might not get finished! Half-built tippler, 24 ton coal wagon and BR steel sand wag litter my living room and loft and they'll have to wait (along with another welded wagon project)! I'm thinking of posting a BR steel welded wagon thread to show some progress and try and get a bit more activity on this board, as I find seeing other people's wagon building progress interesting.

How about a picture of your tank Dave? Any more builders out there...? C'mon Keith, get on with the garage so you can start on the tank again!

[Keith1500]

Well done Richard. Full marks for progress.

I do like the livery. Hope you dont mind a second one being turned out the same.

I actually saw my tank project the other day as i moved it from under the work bench along with the loco, wagons and much other stuff. The bench and end wall are now history! The garage project moves on, driven by the fact I am keen to get on with the wagon especially seeing your photos of it.

Hope to have the new bench buit soon.

updates are on my Flickr site.

Keith

[Richard Phillips]

I don't mind any more being turned out the same, Dave Capol was planning to do and "IMS" tank as well. I don't know if we're going to end up with identical shades and letter spacing, the large letters line up with the top of the end baulks.

Anyway, I had a huge cock-up with the finish, but it looks about presentable. A bit more to do, but not much and nearly ready to run.

Well done Richard. Full marks for progress.

I do like the livery. Hope you dont mind a second one being turned out the same.

I actually saw my tank project the other day as i moved it from under the work bench along with the loco, wagons and much other stuff. The bench and end wall are now history! The garage project moves on, driven by the fact I am keen to get on with the wagon especially seeing your photos of it.

Hope to have the new bench buit soon.

updates are on my Flickr site.

Keith

[mikeg]

Hi Guys - this is a question to ask the administrators - I see no reason why there should not be a special section for members pictures on the GL5 website - a gallery type of heading. Anybody logged in can view sort of thing.

We have a similar arrangement on the Bulleid builders website - once logged in I can view either a library of full size pictures or photos of parts made by other builders. It works well and is very useful for inspiration and detail - nothing like a picture to help.

Might be a problem with size of file(s) but administrators will know what is possible

[Paul]

Rich,

The milk tank looks absolutely superb, looks like i've got a bit of catching up to do!

By the way is that actually carpet I can see, and skirting board too!!!

[Richard Phillips]

Yeah, I take "home shop machinist" to another level, most of my wagons being built in my living room. This is the last of the line from my current home - I'm looking for a place with a workshop/garage, but I have to extol the virtues of having a workshop with radiators and fitted carpet - just be careful when silver-soldering and painting. Most of the dust in that room was caused by paint - when cleaning that room I ended up with a red duster (not the kind flown on a ship)!

You can borrow my rivetting tool whilst you are posted - get on with the job! Otherwise we'll have to arrange another work day - see if we can't progress your tank along a bit. For some reason milk tankers aren't making it out into the wild! They seem to require an extraordinary amount of effort, I never thought this one would take so long to build, they've only got two extra wheels!

Anyway, Paul, get your headstocks squared up and get on and rivet that chassis!

Rich,

The milk tank looks absolutely superb, looks like i've got a bit of catching up to do!

By the way is that actually carpet I can see, and skirting board too!!!

[Keith1500]

Richard,

Good to see you and Dave are making steady progress with the hopper wagon.

you be pleased to know I have resummed work on the LMS milk tank. I'll try to post pictures to show the progress.

The first thing I did was go and buy the Hornby version !

Keith

[Dave Harris]

Further to the previous correspondence regarding the livery of the milk tank wagons, there has just been a question regarding livery raised on the Yahoo wagon research group. A reply came from Paul Bartlett (one of ,if not the expert on wagons in the uk) that the underframes and staying for the barrels for these wagons were owned by the railway companies and the tanks were owned by the dairy companies. The railway companies used dark colours for the underframes, usually black, dark grey or possibly brown and the tanks were in the Dairy colour(s). It is possible if any of these wagons went to an 'independent' wagon repair works that they may have reappeared with a slightly different colour/shade on the underframes. There appears to be no abosolute difinitive information for any particular wagon(s) so I think the decisions taken for the u/f livery are reasonable .

[Richard Phillips]

A rather ruthlessly scaled image that throws some light on the IMS livery, and we've not got it too wrong....

Private Owner Wagons book page scan

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